402 lines
17 KiB
Text
402 lines
17 KiB
Text
all right all right all right!
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so much for good intentions.
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not quite...
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It's easy to make serious mistakes in that situation.
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I agree with some of the others here that the solution probably lies in external contributions from wise members of the community.
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It's still a race.
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Ditto.
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A program exits when main exits.
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That's just an error I will fix.
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You could just drop the adjective.
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I recommend that you fix your code now and be ready for the next release.
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No.
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I accept the argument about regularity but not the one about utility.
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Every acme user around here uses the plan9port version.
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There is no general solution but we are aware of the desire.
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I'm not sure how that helps.
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It's clumsy, I know, although it could be (and will one day be) done a little better.
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I don't know what that means.
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But what are you really trying to do?
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I thought of a few ways but I refuse to write them down for fear people will use them.
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It may be that another approach altogether is better.
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Your assurances are incorrect.
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When I look at your code I see a lot of unnecessary repetition.
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Exactly.
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Yes.
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Poor choice. You went wrong at step 1.
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Interesting idea, though.
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if crypticness is the complaint, remember you're talking about a C compiler.
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Thought I'd post this to a DOOM group.
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There are no plans for a new release of Plan 9.
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there are no pastel paints in the dungeons and dragons world
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it's fitting that my first tweet had a typo.
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There's nothing in computing that can't be broken by another level of indirection.
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It's all happening.
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I prefer deskside computers over laptops because they're much harder to throw in frustration when dealing with incompetent web sites.
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I hear that C++0x is a substantially upgraded language.
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People get annoyed when they must write two lines of code instead of one, but I don't. It's called programming.
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localization (n.): the property that a program runs globally.
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Fixes welcome.
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The first lines of source code were added to Go in 1972.
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You can all relax.
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It's not my Mac Air's fault that the web is too damn slow.
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This discussion isn't pin-headed enough yet.
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The name Brazil was chosen because we wanted terminals with Fresnel lenses on goosenecks like the ones in the movie.
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I don't see what the fuss is about.
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when i was on sabbatical the university installed linux on the PC on my desk.
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Apologies for the inconvenience.
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Thanks.
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Legal terminology is not the best medium for subtlety, so I've asked our lawyers for clarification.
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Give us your address and we'll send Ken out to fix it. That's our technique.
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This won't work.
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Weekends are quiet, good for updating big software packages.
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Web access is very important. Web browsers are very useful. But if you stop there, you're missing a lot of opportunity.
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I'll send a fix in a while.
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Plan 9 is non-standard and proud of it.
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Perhaps I should explain better.
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Here's a short version: Avoid complexity.
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Why not?
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Mea culpa.
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Sorry, guys, but it's not quite a pure PC world, at least not yet.
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True again.
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This fixes your example, anyway.
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Ptys were old and obsolete the day they were invented.
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Kick back, relax. It's the information age.
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Speaking as the portraitist, I believe I captured the personality rather well.
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That's a little simplistic.
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You don't have a user program running when you're trying to boot the kernel.
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The last pieces of this design space have not been explored.
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Feel free to delete it.
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It's surprising what's surprising.
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You should delete some mail.
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Algorithms everywhere, and not a byte to send.
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This is idiocy.
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Yes, precisely.
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Difficult administration results in incorrect or inadequate installation.
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Use something distinctive.
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It's easy if you have the spec.
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Of course it does.
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I've been thinking of sending this information to 9fans for a while.
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I'm a little disturbed by these questions.
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This question has been answered.
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No, there is no solution.
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Other systems claim to have solutions but they are exaggerating.
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I was trying to tell you the way to do it.
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Awful.
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Not exactly.
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In this context, I don't feel it's ambiguous.
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By tradition, the return value of functions report what they did, not what they considered doing.
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Sigh.
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Whoops... Incomplete instructions.
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I would like to understand this.
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I would think mouse chords would be singularly ineffective on the Mac.
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Anyone willing to help?
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Don't be stupid.
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Unnecessary, anyway.
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Actually I mistyped.
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If it's just between you and your server, go for it.
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I'd really like someone to clean the mess up (hint, hint).
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Hell has nothing to do with it.
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False.
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I think you misrepresent the purpose of security. Its role is to prevent us getting work done.
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So the rule of security is the following: if you are able to work on something other than security, your system is insecure.
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Those days [of "one tool doing one job well"] are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl.
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I'll alert the media.
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Unix never says `please.'
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The secretaries don't understand me.
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Sometimes when you fill a vacuum, it still sucks.
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If you think awk is the perfect programming language for the problem, you don't understand the problem yet.
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There's no such thing as a simple cache bug.
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A great deal of agonizing and very little decisiveness went into resolving this issue
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Caches aren't architecture, they're just optimization.
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People admire complexity.
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Bite my shiny metal ass.
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iOS4.3 lets you decide whether the side switch is mute or rotate lock. Operating system innovations never cease.
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If you can't do something right, sometimes it's not worth doing at all.
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Once idea that comes to mind is to show us a reproducible example.
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The API has indeed changed.
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I suppose the documentation should mention this.
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I'm a radical here, but I think if a machine is paging, you've lost.
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So again, why?
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I guess I'm dim.
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In the good old days, copyright notices meant something.
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ouch
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It doesn't matter what the bug is, someone will depend on it.
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We're still working on it.
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Write less code.
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Would a Plan 9 user please provide an accurate status report of the state of the Go port to the system?
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I wasn't asking about 9front.
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Your "why bother?" question is a good one.
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Your question is answered by the FAQ entry.
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Hip hip hooray.
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Go gets mocked a lot.
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I am done here.
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What's jQuery?
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It's possible but not by writing a single line of code.
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Your "mathematically more correct" claim sounds fishy.
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This statement demonstrates a profound misunderstanding.
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I guess that wasn't very helpful.
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The proposed fix is perhaps not the best one.
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It's only an issue on mailing lists and discussion groups.
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Let me put in a word about the Apple wireless trackpad.
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Nothing.
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Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy.
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I assume that the reader is familiar with the UNIX tools.
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You missed a spot.
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This is Go.
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I didn't violate anything. I made a suggestion.
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At least in Go the behavior is well defined.
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What is the average length of time the phrase"Time remaining: Less than a minute" lingers on an Apple screen?
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acme is unobtainable at the moment.
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I don't understand what your issue is.
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It's so trivial it could be a few lines of shell script, unless I'm missing something.
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There is no such feature.
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Go is not C.
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I don't understand the bug report.
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The Go 1 compatibility promise holds us back.
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No. The "No" in "no changes" means no.
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Be very careful.
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You almost never need xargs.
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Actually I was hoping to stop at least my end of the dialog.
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I like to think of a function as a function. But that's just me.
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Ummm, don't do that?
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I say not now.
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I don't understand what you're saying here as a response to what I said.
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I defer to the experts.
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It's really not clear what the right long-term solution is.
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Why do by hand what a machine can do just as well or better?
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please don't ask; we're working on it
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I don't understand why you keep beating on this.
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It's nice to be in a position where people apologize because they assume there's humor in your work, based on past experience, but they're not sure where it is.
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all sounds fine to me.
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Oh man, do I miss my red Swiss mouse.
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Of course, this may change.
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The real answer lies in further research.
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please don't e-mail us.
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I just live with unaligned comments.
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Why should I?
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I sense a conspiracy.
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I leave it to you to find a way to correct the problem.
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We'll never agree.
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I suggest a different compromise: you do whatever you want, we ignore you. Deal?
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Read the manuals.
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I disagree.
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My toaster runs KRONOS.
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Why did Peter Weiner register plan9.com?
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Thank you for adding support to my position. I really appreciate it.
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The only document that claims Plan 9 runs in 4 megabytes is the FAQ on our home page.
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We are using other techniques now.
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What's wrong with forking processes?
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I know what versioning is, it's "vendoring" that I don't recognize as a term.
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Let's leave it at that.
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This conversation has run its course.
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Remember, the language is not the point here, it's the implementation.
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Nothing is worth spending a week with bureaucratic Germans.
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Caches are bugs waiting to happen.
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The hermeneutics of naming yields few insights.
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What difference does it make whether it's an "object-oriented language"?
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Why not just use a URL shortener?
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Remember this?
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three programmers go into a bar. the sam user is there because he's finished the day's work and wants to relax. the vi user is there because he's going to be working all night and needs a break. the emacs user is there because there's nothing else he can do: both his hands are in splints because of carpal tunnel syndrome.
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Oh yeah, great: eye tracking and mind reading.
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Certainly not.
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It's a terrible idea.
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First, check your errors.
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I second that!
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Ha ha.
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Let the machine do the work.
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I'm not going back in there.
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Advertisers.
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I'm not used to success.
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Not needed.
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2106 is a long time from now.
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Why does this matter?
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Does anyone know of a version of sam for Windows that will run on 64-bit installations?
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Great, thanks.
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I used to be a physicist.
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Please file an issue at golang.org/issue/new
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There is no simple definition for what people want.
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One man's toy is another's real system, and every tool adds to the arsenal.
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There is no problem in computer science that cannot be solved by another JSON configuration file.
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Anything important enough to be in a dot-file is important enough not to be in a dot-file.
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Again, please read the blog post I cited.
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Experiment!
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Live and learn.
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Something else may happen one day.
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I don't know what the right answer is.
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If it's not worth doing well, it's not worth doing at all.
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Manual is wrong.
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The Plan 9 FAQ needs work.
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In another 24 years, programmers will learn how to use malloc.
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Use a tool.
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Please define 'trouble'.
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I just noticed that Glenda, the Plan 9 bunny, has a body the same shape as Tor Johnson's head.
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I must admit I find the fissiparous nature of the Open Source/FSF community a little dispiriting.
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Thanks for saying that.
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Is this a bug fix?
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I disagree with the premise.
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I speak from experience here.
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It's not how many features that matter, it's how the features interact.
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Just write the code.
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Looks like a bug.
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And now we have diverged so far from the original question that we can safely ignore it.
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I oversold due to fading memory. But I stand by the fundamental point.
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Although there may be specific examples where generated output is uninteresting, deciding whether to read code based entirely on whether a computer or a human wrote it doesn't seem a good general principle to me.
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Short answer: No.
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None of that is excusable, only true.
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File an issue?
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The documentation is clearly insufficient.
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You don't say anything about the problem beyond "it doesn't work".
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Can you be a little more specific please?
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Working as intended.
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That's a shame.
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Nothing has changed.
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Correct as written. Maybe badly written, but correct.
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Does it make a difference?
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One more thing.
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That's odd.
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Nothing in Go is accidental.
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Go was supposed to be a fresh start.
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Ken and I ported Plan 9 to the SPARC in 6 days over one fun Christmas break.
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I told the truth as I saw it.
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Wait, teletypes are finally gone so we need *pseudo* teletypes?
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I started complaining about this long ago and nobody cared then, either.
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It is very unlikely to change.
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Don't do that.
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This is just me speaking, not the Go team.
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Go doesn't have it.
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Even the simplest changes can be disruptive.
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Feels like the wrong solution to me.
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Copying source just leads to confusion.
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More discussion is required.
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What are you really trying to do?
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I wrote a book about this once; I recommend it.
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I just thought it would be nice.
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My recent incompetence is humbling. I should quit the industry.
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Three cheers for dropping things that are too complex.
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Great.
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This is one special case.
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This slippery slope is long and steep. I'd prefer not to take the first step.
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All that aside, the rule works very well in practice.
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dot dot dot
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Sounds nice.
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Yes.
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It is legal.
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At MIT the server is the unit of invention.
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Nothing is wrong here.
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Да!
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Noted.
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нет.
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THIS OPUS LACKS PERSPICACITY
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THIS INCHOATE EMISSION DOES NOT ADUMBRATE CONSUMMATION
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OK I'll stop now.
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Russ is prepping some words about what's happening.
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I will fix.
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Feature requests will be ignored.
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I would call that a bug.
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Feel free to file an issue.
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I really dislike knobs in APIs.
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???
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What's wrong with the obvious?
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I am dyspeptic.
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I do not.
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The Yacc grammar was translated by sam-powered hands.
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Turning off comments.
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This is unfortunate.
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NaN is unfortunate.
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No we can't.
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go away
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You misinterpreted my suggestion.
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Not a great situation, I admit.
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I do not understand your criticism.
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If you want to do the work, I will review the results.
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Now, this is one of the things where the guy who blogged about me being a world-class jackass missed the point.
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Please drop this.
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Maybe yes, maybe no.
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Please be respectful in this forum.
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It sounds reasonable and should be easy enough to implement.
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There is a widespread assumption that garbage collection and kernels cannot coexist but history shows a number of examples that demonstrate otherwise.
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Speaking as a one-time kernel writer, I would have loved to have garbage collection available inside the kernel. Hell, half the code in the kernel is tied to memory management.
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Thanks for the report.
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It takes precautions but there are no guarantees.
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What is the problem you are trying to solve?
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Please be civil.
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I think this would be a mistake.
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Go's interfaces were designed to solve particular problems.
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Go is not the product of a Whiggish development process.
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complexity is multiplicative
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i always intended to fix the problem; i never saw how.
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apologies.
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The choice cannot be explained, only understood.
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Indeed.
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i see no bug here.
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I support the idea of unrecorded talks.
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We do not accept patches
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Syntax highlighting is juvenile.
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Working as designed.
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I've written programs with twenty implementations of io.Reader inside.
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Who cares? Shut up.
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What is wrong with my analysis?
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I just want to explain something.
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I recommend in the strongest terms that you don't do this.
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Sockets are the X windows of IO interfaces.
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Ignore what I wrote.
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In other words, here's how to do it but don't do it.
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I did indeed.
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I don't understand what you mean by 'reset'.
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I am, and as far as I can tell it makes no difference whatsoever.
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Please put this silly objection to rest. It has no merit.
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Interpretations will vary.
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I think the pattern used well is perfectly acceptable in certain situations.
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Like everything that attracts scrutiny, the key point is to use the idea well: safely, clearly, correctly, and only when appropriate.
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I am not trying to be difficult, but you must understand it's not simple to address your question.
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One step at a time.
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Thanks for grinding through those.
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Hardware has stopped getting faster. Software has not stopped getting slower.
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Ah, right.
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I disagree.
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There is little meaningful difference between bad style and bad practice.
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It's come up before.
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Ah, nice. the woodpeckers are back.
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I recently got the idiotically named but otherwise very well designed, quiet, and comfortable Apple Magic Keyboard.
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It sounds like a mistake to me.
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What a lovely vacuous platitude.
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That is unhelpful.
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Reports of the death of Research are greatly exaggerated.
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There are already courses being taught in `feminist science' and the trend is sure to continue.
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Not quite.
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Please file an issue.
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I'm not convinced there is a "why" other than "that's what happens".
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Working as intended.
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Awwww. Sniff.
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The operation is not to copy but to snarf. It's called snarf because snarf is what it does. There is no design document.
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Automatically deciding what's important in a program's dependencies is not easy.
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Thanks
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Yes, one could, and that would be a stylistic decision.
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Best not to promote the bad idea.
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Nil means nothing.
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People often spend too much time worrying about the things that don't matter.
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Often the reason something was done is more important than what was done.
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I believe this is not a Go issue.
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Are you running Xcode 8.3?
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I don't think so.
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Yup.
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Code comments can be helpful with unusual situations like this.
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The key word is simple.
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If I could, I would disallow it altogether.
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I completely disagree.
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I say leave it alone.
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I wasn't speaking metaphorically.
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A nil map is like a regular map but it has nothing in it, cannot grow, and takes zero space.
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We live in a digital dark age.
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Neither of your issues is a problem.
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Your ideas may make people happy, which is not a small thing, but do they really help?
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What's this? https://plan9.io/
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Consistency is a better explanation.
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Code can move.
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You might find blog.golang.org/constants helpful.
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Over time, everything gets better but also worse and always bigger and more complex.
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Nice to see Egreg again.
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It wasn't my intention.
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The Blit was nice.
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Sockets are just so unpleasant, and the endless nonsense around network configuration doubly so.
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